Another Tax Question

[Jade]

and furthermore

face it


Child support is like business, whether or not we like that concept.

Face it, child support is the responsibility of the NCP.  They chose to have a child (and even they didn't want the pregnancy, they chose to have sex knowing that the end result could end up with a pregnancy). 

Child support isn't a business.  It is supporting your child. 

I would say that I am sorry that you don't like that concept, but I would be lying.

heaven forbid CP has accountability. This is about supporting the children so why shouldn't there be accountability unless per say, you have something to hide?

I have nothing to hide.  I just refuse to give my ex that much control over my life. 

[livealittle]

http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq-kw23.html

this might help you

oh man oh man, Livi I knew I had seen that somewhere before...i checked when Older One's father said he was told he had to claim her if she went on his healthcare plan...i was like "Uhhh...NO"

and then i did the research and found out that he couldn't claim her....

he is absolutely bullshitting you with this statement.  What employer is going to check your federal tax return to see if you claimed a dependent for health care as a dependent on your taxes?  A dependent for healthcare purposes is determined by the healthcare plan - like a natural born or adopted child up to age [whatever plan says] or a spouse - not who you claim as a dependent for tax purposes.  I hope you didn't fall for this.  Call every healthcare insurance company and ask if you have a child do they have to have proof you listed them as a dependent on your tax return. 

[~aquafina~]

Nah...like I said...i was like...Uhhh NO

I think the Employee Benefits guy actually told him to tell me that...

he came back later after I did the research and said..."Oh...I was wrong about that"

God knows why he would have EVEr tried to pull a fast one on me...it never worked before

[Chris]

This whole child support thing is a touchy subject.  My understanding, is that the child support guidelines are federally mandated as far as the actual calculation of support.  The big differences are in the parenting time and awarding of custody.

I have joint legal custody of my children, and my ex earns alot more than I do, so, she pays child support.

As far as providing an "accounting" of the child support funds?  Well, I think the payor always wants it, and the receivor never wants it, I know I'm stating the obvious, but, that's how it is. 

The problem with having the CP (or person receiving the support) doing this, is it would be a huge adminstrative undertaking for the State government, or local government, to enforce compliance with such a monitoring program.  The divorce rate in my state is somewhere around 65%.  I don't have all the #'s, but, let's say that the State legislates a mandate for the CP to account for all child support funds.  First of all, I believe there would be a constitutional problem (right to privacy), which would stop anyone from forcing the CP to provide financial records to their ex-spouse on an on-going basis, without legal cause (ie divorce proceeding, or other civil proceeding).  Second, the mechanism to enforce such compliance would be extremely costly.  If such a law was put into place, the CP would theoretically have to provide a financial report disclosing where the monthly child support went.  A simple bank statement would not be enough, because not all transactions on bank statements are descriptive enough to allow for full disclosure of said transactions.  So, we're left with having the CP prepare some sort of Income Statement accounting for the funds.  OK, what's to stop the CP from filing a false report?  The obvious answer is to have the report audited.  I'm an accountant working in government, folks, trust me, the cost to have every CP child support financial report audited in the State would be astronomical.  For those that propose such legislation, you better be prepared for a tax increase.  Unless you can come up with some other way to fund the compliance enforcement program.

Just my $.02

[Chris]

I was wrong about the constitutional issue.  In AZ, we ARE required to provide financial information (W-2's, Tax Returns) to our ex-spouses every two years.  But we are not required to provide anyting beyond that (ie bank statements)

[Jade]

This whole child support thing is a touchy subject.  My understanding, is that the child support guidelines are federally mandated as far as the actual calculation of support.  The big differences are in the parenting time and awarding of custody.

I have joint legal custody of my children, and my ex earns alot more than I do, so, she pays child support.

As far as providing an "accounting" of the child support funds?  Well, I think the payor always wants it, and the receivor never wants it, I know I'm stating the obvious, but, that's how it is. 

The problem with having the CP (or person receiving the support) doing this, is it would be a huge adminstrative undertaking for the State government, or local government, to enforce compliance with such a monitoring program.  The divorce rate in my state is somewhere around 65%.  I don't have all the #'s, but, let's say that the State legislates a mandate for the CP to account for all child support funds.  First of all, I believe there would be a constitutional problem (right to privacy), which would stop anyone from forcing the CP to provide financial records to their ex-spouse on an on-going basis, without legal cause (ie divorce proceeding, or other civil proceeding).  Second, the mechanism to enforce such compliance would be extremely costly.  If such a law was put into place, the CP would theoretically have to provide a financial report disclosing where the monthly child support went.  A simple bank statement would not be enough, because not all transactions on bank statements are descriptive enough to allow for full disclosure of said transactions.  So, we're left with having the CP prepare some sort of Income Statement accounting for the funds.  OK, what's to stop the CP from filing a false report?  The obvious answer is to have the report audited.  I'm an accountant working in government, folks, trust me, the cost to have every CP child support financial report audited in the State would be astronomical.  For those that propose such legislation, you better be prepared for a tax increase.  Unless you can come up with some other way to fund the compliance enforcement program.

Just my $.02

Child support collection is federally mandated, but the way it is calculated depends on what state you are in.

NJ uses an income share, while other states just do a percentage of ncp's net income. 

Do you have joint physical as well as joint legal (they are two very different types of custody)?

[Chris]

we have joint legal and physical custody , however, I am the NCP, but the parenting time is equal.  In We share the kids basically 50/50, but we are also flexible with vactions, swithing weekends and so forth.  In AZ, both incomes are adjusted for certain categories, total support is determined, and then the relative % of support is determined based on adjusted incomes.  In cases where the NCP's parenting time equals or exceeds 143 days, the legal status is ignored, and the parenting time prevails for purposes of calculating child support.

[Jade]

we have joint legal and physical custody , however, I am the NCP, but the parenting time is equal.  In We share the kids basically 50/50, but we are also flexible with vactions, swithing weekends and so forth.  In AZ, both incomes are adjusted for certain categories, total support is determined, and then the relative % of support is determined based on adjusted incomes.  In cases where the NCP's parenting time equals or exceeds 143 days, the legal status is ignored, and the parenting time prevails for purposes of calculating child support.

The legal status isn't what determines child support.  In my state, the ncp gets credit back for the time that kids are with him/her overnight.  Just day visits don't count for credits back.  Which means that less overnights, the more child support.

When it is 50/50 physical custody, there usually isn't any child support unless the one parent makes a significant amount more than the other parent. 

[Chris]

And that's the case with me.  My ex is a corportate executive, I'm a government worker.  she makes 3 times my salary, so she pays cs.

[chill]

I was in my divorce decree that as long as he is paying child support he can have the kids deductions. I agreed to that, and have signed the papers yearly giving him the credit on taxes.  I felt it was the fair thing to do.  Seeing that he paid about child support and I didn't make enough for it to really matter to me.  Whereas it helped him when filing taxes.  But the key was that I didn't sign the paper until every year, that way if the child support was behind or not coming in.......then he wouldn't get the dependents.  I still qualified tho for head of household, since I added to the support and had the kids over 90 % of the time.

[anniewalker]

As to this whole accounting BS, puh-lease.  The NCP's don't want to know what it costs to raise a kid.  I told my ex that I'd keep up with it for 6 months, if he agreed that whatever it was, he'd pay half.  A little over 2 months into it he asked for the accounting to see where we were so far.  Once he got a look, he decided that child support wasn't so unjust after all.  I'll share my numbers because a) we get along now and b) I'm over it and c) we are actually going to court this summer to do joint custody with no one paying child support.  We roll like that.  But in 1998, we did not.  Here was the breakdown.

I made $9 and hour.  He made $10.50 an hour.  Our child was 4 years old.  Child support was $78 per week. 
Daycare was $65 per week or $282 per month.
Rent on my 2br apt was $350.  Her share of the rent - $175.  I included electricity, water, garbage and cable in her rent.  I could have rented a 1BR for about $225, so this evened it out.
I paid around $75 a week for family coverage insurance.  Single coverage was about $20 a week.  That is $55 a week for her insurance.  $238 a month.
Groceries ran around $30 a week for the little sqirt.  Scooby Doo fruit snacks and Go-gurts and fish sticks and Coco Puffs add up.  That is $130 a month.  I didn't count every slice of bread or glass of milk, just kid specific items.
Then there are clothes, and hair ribbons, and socks, and shoes, and a new furry bathrobe, and sheets with Disney Princesses on them and a night light so that her teddy bear doesn't get scared.  I don't remember the numbers there, but let's say $50.

Wow.  I'm at $875 already.  We haven't even added in T-Ball or dance lessons.  There aren't any doctor's appointments, days missed off of work.  Haircuts.  Spring pictures.  A new booster seat when she got to 45 lbs or whatever it was (he took that seat every other weekend, but it was mine and I bought it).  Tear free shampoo.  Coloring books and crayons.  Barbie dolls and board games. 

Kids are expensive, no doubt.  The custodial parent gets the benefit of having the child reside with them more.  As a result, they must shoulder the brunt of the expenses.  The non-custodial parent does not have the day to day responsibilities of raising the child.  They pay a set amount and see the child on a set schedule.  It isn't FAIR to anyone.  Life is not fair.  If it were you'd get a board and a pair of dice and set of instructions.  Teach your kids this now because as you get older it doesn't get any better.

 

[Chris]

It's only BS if you don't understand it, I've been in the industry many years, I have experience and knowledge in this field, it's obvious from your post, that you don't.

[livealittle]

It's only BS if you don't understand it, I've been in the industry many years, I have experience and knowledge in this field, it's obvious from your post, that you don't.

having met Annie IRL and spent time discussing all kinds of things.  She does get it.

To expect a custodial parent to explain how he/she spent the child support money is riduculous.  It would only open up a huge battle - the NCP would then second guess and criticize the CP's decisions.

[Chris]

I agree that having the CP explain where the money went is unreasonable.  She didn't seem to understand the administrative hassle I was talking about to oversee a program to ensure  CP's compliance with any requirement for the CP to account for their child support.

I have considerable knowledge of governmental accounting operations, it's my profession.

How are you doing today?

[anniewalker]

She didn't seem to understand the administrative hassle I was talking about to oversee a program to ensure  CP's compliance with any requirement for the CP to account for their child support

I never addressed a program to ensure  an accounting of funds on a state or federal level.  I simply stated my personal experience in providing such an accounting to my ex-husband regarding our daughter.  Did you read my post before you decided to go on the defensive?  I thought I did a good job illustrating that breaking down the expenses (rent, for example.  Groceries, as another) is crazy.  Other things such as toys, hair ribbons, etc. are at the parent's discretion.  I thought we agreed, Chris.  I'm not sure where your hostility comes from, but it was misdirected when you pointed it at me.