Questions About Retirement, Life Insurance & Buying out Your Spouse

[IndianaGal]

After 19 years, my husband decides he's going to have an affair.  I've tried to get past it, but can't...I found out it was for 2 years.  When his lover found out I knew, she left him.  He's now saying he wants to work things out, but only because she left him.  I'm not living that way, so I'm getting things ready to get a dissolution or if needed, a divorce.

Now..we refinanced the house only a year ago, took the equity too.  I am letting him buy me out due to too many repairs on this place.  What if we get an appraisal and it's hardly anything?  Do I just take it that since we refianced together, that I just sign it over with hardly any equity?  He's thinking we might only have about $4000 there, if that much.  I've lived here since 1990 and it's all my kids have known.  I might have to walk away with nothing maybe?

Also, he works for the state..he is saying that I have no right to ask for his retirement.  He worked for a factory for many years and got laid off.  He took out all he had vested, plus 401K..and I'm finding out that it's all been spent.  $33,000 gone...As to what, I don't know, but more than likely, the whore he was with is what it went on.  Now that he works for the state, he has started another retirement savings account.  He has been there for 3 years now and puts $280 a month into it.  He is saying that he hardly will have anything to live on in retirement..well, it's not my fault that he spent all his previos retirement.  I thought that it's a given law now that the spouse gets half of the other spouse's retirement?  He's saying I'm entitled to none and that the retirement agency will tell me the same thing.  Bullshit.

Now, on his life insurance..if I ask him to cash in his policy to split it, which he's had forever, does he have to, or can he just refuse it? 

I am barely working and have 2 kids to take care of.  He says I'm money hungry and I'm not doing anything but ruining his name.  I told him no, you did that when you cheated.  If he had not cheated, I would not be putting a dissolution together, getting ready to give it all to my lawyer. 

Basically, he is saying he'll let me divorce him...like that - 'let' - if I don't go after these things.  Just walk away from my home, and any chance of money.  Just child support and that's it. 

Anyone else have this issue and how did you handle it?  Or any advice, please post.  Thanks.

[Piedpiper]

Get a lawyer and discuss these things with him.
I'd also recommend working thru your anger so that you're not intentionally or otherwise doing all that to get back at him.
Perhaps a counselor thru church or professionally that can help you sort out yours and your kids emotions?

After so many years, it's hard to go from one extreme to the other.

[Lee Borden]

You're entitled to a thorough explanation of the use of your husband's retirement benefits that have now been spent. If you're not satisfied with the explanation he provides, you may have no choice but to get it by discovery. See http://www.divorceinfo.com/discoverymoneypit.htm. Even if you get it all back on the table, $33,000 seems surprisingly small for a retirement plan after long-term employment, so you also should make sure that's all there ever was.

If the money went to take care of Bambi, you may very well be successful at getting it back on the table in some way. If your husband used it to pay living expenses or pay off marital debt, it may just be gone, because it benefited you just like it benefited him.

You are entitled to share in the wealth of your husband's state retirement, even though it'll probably very small at this point. Many state retirement plans will not respond to a QDRO - http://www.divorceinfo.com/qdro.htm - but a judge can still order your husband to pay a portion of it to you.

[Shadow]

We have separate policies on me & my husband. Do I have any say as to who the beneficiaries are when the divorce is final or do you think he'll probably just drop the premium?

[Lee Borden]

If one of the spouses is required in a divorce to pay support to the other, it's typical for the court to require the payor to keep life insurance in place to provide the funds even if the payor were to die.

[livealittle]

We have separate policies on me & my husband. Do I have any say as to who the beneficiaries are when the divorce is final or do you think he'll probably just drop the premium?

 a lot depends on who the owner of the policy is.  That is different from the primary insured.  The owner of the policy has more rights to the policy than the insured.  For example, a parent can take out a life insurance policy on a child and that parent can be both the owner and the beneficiary, but the parent could also make someone else the beneficiary and still be the owner - perhaps a grandparent or even the other parent.  Does that make sense?  The child could try to drop the policy and wouldn't be able to, even if the child was an adult.

[kungfugirl]

i am in the process of divorce and at the property distribution settlement. Mr. borden would u please help rationalize this one.
i am thinking of letting my stbx keep his 401k of 160k in exchange for me keeping the house. I lived in AZ and the house value has gone up considerably.
or i would just get a QDRO drawn up and take my share from his 401k and refinance the house and buy him out? please help me me negotiate. thanks

[m_t]

Would you be able to keep up the house payments as well as other associated expenses? Would you qualify for a refi? That's stuff you need to look at before making a decisions. Lots of people forget that owning a home isn't cheap, and oftentimes get so caught up in "getting" it, that they don't realize they won't be able to keep it once they do.

How much equity is in the house? How old is it? What sorts of major repairs are coming due (roof, a/c and/or furnace, paint/siding, etc)? Is there extensive landscaping that needs to be kept up? What about utilities? How cheaply/expensively can you heat/cool the place? And so on and so forth.

Sometimes it's better to take the cash in hand than be stuck with a ball and chain around your neck.

[Lee Borden]

I'm with M_T. I'm not saying it's a mistake to keep the house, because I honestly don't know. I do know that we're in the first period of a general decline in real estate values in recent memory, so the house may be worth less than you and your STBX realize. Personally, I would always go for money in a retirement plan. It's more flexible, it doesn't suck down expense money every month, and it builds value (we all hope) for our retirement years.

[kungfugirl]

thank u all for all the response.
 it is really helpful.

by the way house is 10 years old. in good shape. I can afford the house payment and maintenance of this house and I am the one paying it even during the marriage to begin with. i know i would like to keep the house so I will not disrupt the kids routine.
there is a great deal of custody battle with this divorce. My stbx already got a place for himself as he got kick out of the house due to R.O. the kids are 17 1/2 and 15 so after the children  interview by the court they choose to live with me. ( as they said this is the house they grew up with).

My stbx  got his new house with the help of his Mom while the divorce is ongoing with the intention of pursuing the child custody. so I am thinking after 3 years when my youngest graduates from high school. I could sell it. By the way I lived in AZ. and the house gone up in value considerably. it is on midlle class neighborhood.
I oirginally opted for him keeping his 401k and offset my share to his share on the equity of the house. but due to the fact that his atty is telling us ( my atty and me) that there is a 10 % penalty if i let him keep his 401k. I told him to just draw a QDRO to transfer his share to my personal 401k.

here is the question. is this a good decision made by me and my lawyer?  and if it is i will be going to refinance whatever the share he has on the equity so i will have take into consideration the added funds to refi. i will be able to refi the house per my bank
i will be getting child support and back child support so that should be added income.
He is contesting also that he cannot give me alimony I make almost the same as he does maybe $600.00 more $ difference.
any input will be appreciated thanks

[Lee Borden]

Your statement is poorly written, so I'm having trouble understanding who proposes to do what and who is concerned about what. The only 10% penalty with which I am familiar is assessed if you take money out of a retirement and spend it before age 59 1/2.

It sounds to me as if you are determined to keep the house, so keep it. Just know the disadvantages, and keep asking yourself after the divorce whether it still makes sense to stay there.

[m_t]

I make almost the same as he does maybe $600.00 more $ difference.

Why should he be paying you alimony?

[kungfugirl]

I had supported the whole family when he went to school full time. secondly when he is trying to find a job, so where he is now thru my full support.  anyway thank u for all the info and to clarify to MR Borden. I will be going to keep the house because even if we will sell it still very hard to find a home that is at least the same price or lesser due to the fact that home prices went up so much in comparison to the prices of homes 11 years ago in this state. 

[Dallas]

I had supported the whole family when he went to school full time. secondly when he is trying to find a job, so where he is now thru my full support.  anyway thank u for all the info and to clarify to MR Borden. I will be going to keep the house because even if we will sell it still very hard to find a home that is at least the same price or lesser due to the fact that home prices went up so much in comparison to the prices of homes 11 years ago in this state. 

My Dad supported me while I went to school full time.  Applying your rational, I should be paying him.

I think the appropriate concept to apply here is rehabilitation.  Neither of you need it, so neither should pay.

Dallas

[Jade]

I had supported the whole family when he went to school full time. secondly when he is trying to find a job, so where he is now thru my full support.  anyway thank u for all the info and to clarify to MR Borden. I will be going to keep the house because even if we will sell it still very hard to find a home that is at least the same price or lesser due to the fact that home prices went up so much in comparison to the prices of homes 11 years ago in this state. 

My Dad supported me while I went to school full time.  Applying your rational, I should be paying him.

I think the appropriate concept to apply here is rehabilitation.  Neither of you need it, so neither should pay.

Dallas

There is a major difference between a parent providing an education for a child and a person providing an education to their spouse. 

When one provides an education to one's spouse, one expects to be able to benefit from it in the future. 

When a parent provides an education to a child, that parent expects the child to benefit from it.