Phone Calls Being Changed

[TMBS]

Yes, I'm the one who moved. He remained in Alabama. That is the state that has the court case. He still remains in Alabama, just now he is in a different town.

[CollegeDad]

How many children do you have?  What ages? 

I don't understand what the objection to your talking with your children is.  Why on earth is this a problem?  In our day and age of cell phones and Internet I don't see how this could be inconvenient to anyone.  I mean, if you were calling excessively or talking for long stretches of time while the family is trying to go to a movie or eat supper or whatever I could see how your ex might have a point.  But, if you are just calling to tell the kids good night or ask how their day went and it isn't disrupting anything else that is going on then I don't see what the problem is. 

I guess I think of it as if a parent were on TDY and they called to tell their kids they were thinking of them and they'll see them soon.  You are kind of on permanent TDY.  I don't know.  I just think a parent ought to be able to call their child every day if they want. 

Of course, if his new girl friend is a little insecure with your calling and talking to him all the time, I could see how this might very well be what is going on.  I can't imagine that the kids would be complaining about their mom calling.

[TMBS]

I have three children. One is 11yrs old, he resides with me as he is not the biological child of my ex and I stated in court that I would not allow for the courts to seek custody on him. (In other words, my ex wanted me to sign this paper stating I would turn custody over to him if he got custody of the other two). I also have an 8yr old and a 5 yr old, they reside with my ex.
I do not understand what the objection to me speaking with my children is either. I feel that it is putting a larger wedge between not only myself and my children but, my oldest son and my younger children. We only talk on the phone for maybe 15 min at a time, and I am the one who calls most of the time because as I have told the ex, I have long distance calling and don't mind paying extra for it. I could also see if it were disrupting some flow in their home but, every time I call (which is at a designated time and has been for the past three years) they are playing in their rooms together. If they have something to do (like going to a fair, movies, school meetings, etc.) then I get a text from my ex telling me that they won't be talking that evening, which is never a problem. But, to cut it down to two days a week and have both of those days on school nights is going to make it hard for all of us. I am going to try and ask him for one weekend day/evening to talk to them so we can talk longer. I make it a point not to talk to long on the phone during the week cause I understand there is school, but why not on the weekends? Really, I don't have a fit or anything that my ex and his gf go out because I believe they need time alone together, so I don't see why no weekend calls.
But, as you said, I think it's the new girlfriend whom might have a problem with me. I don't know why as she don't know me personally. She is the one who made the pick up of my babies hard on my oldest son. (She was trying to be as degrading as possible and having her teen sons help). But, I don't know her...my ex won't even tell me her full name. (In other words she goes by initials and he won't tell me her last name.)
Sorry, I rambled on...my apologies. I'll find out more to his reasons tonight. I just hate to sit and quabble with the kids maybe being in earshot and I refuse to sit and do tit for tat over text messages...we are supposed to be grown ups.

[livealittle]

I have three children. One is 11yrs old, he resides with me as he is not the biological child of my ex and I stated in court that I would not allow for the courts to seek custody on him. (In other words, my ex wanted me to sign this paper stating I would turn custody over to him if he got custody of the other two). I also have an 8yr old and a 5 yr old, they reside with my ex.
I do not understand what the objection to me speaking with my children is either. I feel that it is putting a larger wedge between not only myself and my children but, my oldest son and my younger children. We only talk on the phone for maybe 15 min at a time, and I am the one who calls most of the time because as I have told the ex, I have long distance calling and don't mind paying extra for it. I could also see if it were disrupting some flow in their home but, every time I call


(which is at a designated time and has been for the past three years)


they are playing in their rooms together. If they have something to do (like going to a fair, movies, school meetings, etc.) then I get a text from my ex telling me that they won't be talking that evening, which is never a problem. But, to cut it down to two days a week and have both of those days on school nights is going to make it hard for all of us. I am going to try and ask him for one weekend day/evening to talk to them so we can talk longer. I make it a point not to talk to long on the phone during the week cause I understand there is school, but why not on the weekends? Really, I don't have a fit or anything that my ex and his gf go out because I believe they need time alone together, so I don't see why no weekend calls.
But, as you said, I think it's the new girlfriend whom might have a problem with me. I don't know why as she don't know me personally. She is the one who made the pick up of my babies hard on my oldest son. (She was trying to be as degrading as possible and having her teen sons help). But, I don't know her...my ex won't even tell me her full name. (In other words she goes by initials and he won't tell me her last name.)
Sorry, I rambled on...my apologies. I'll find out more to his reasons tonight. I just hate to sit and quabble with the kids maybe being in earshot and I refuse to sit and do tit for tat over text messages...we are supposed to be grown ups.

since this has been the arrangement for the past 3 years, you have a standard that is acceptable to both parties. See an attorney ASAP so you can get the status quo returned. The longer you put off trying to legally go back to the status quo, the greater the risk of not getting it.

[TMBS]

Thank you very much for responding. I believe I will try and get a lawyer consultation on this tomorrow.

[livealittle]

Thank you very much for responding. I believe I will try and get a lawyer consultation on this tomorrow.

approach it

in the best interest of the children, I have had telephone conversations at [times, dates] every week since [date]. for the last 3 years, every week I have spoken to the children at least 5-7 times for approximately 15 minutes each time. The children know that I am involved in their lives and that they are a priority for me because I speak to them nearly every day. Reducing my telephone contact with the children from daily contact to 2 school nights a week is not in their best interest.

[CollegeDad]

Yeah, I concur with what livealittle said.  You've established a pattern.  You should be able to argue that it is disruptive to your children to change that pattern at this time.  Everybody is used to it and it is not hurting anyone.  Put the burden on your ex to prove why the norm is a problem to him. 

I wish that you could forge ahead with continuing that pattern instead of changing to your Ex's new mandate now.  If you follow along with your ex's mandate, it will probably be in place for many months while this is all waiting to come before the judge.  Then at that time, your ex can argue that the change was not a problem and the kids haven't been too noticeably affected by it.  The longer this new mandate is in place the more it becomes the new norm. 

I don't know.  All of this is very tricky and will depend on your ability to persuade the judge that your point of view is best for the children.  The judge will have to weigh your request against what is the "norm" for most of the other divorce cases that come before him.  It will be tough to argue for an exception to that norm if that is what you are asking for. 

The only way that any of this makes sense in my mind is that a third party, namely the new girl friend, is persuading the ex to distance himself and the kids from you.  And you've sort of indicated that may be the case.  It sure isn't uncommon. 

That is interesting that your ex would ask to have custody of your oldest child even though he is not related to that child.  I can understand if he was trying to keep all of the children together.  I hope that it wasn't for some sort of show as to what kind of a "good" guy he is as part of his custody pursuit of his own biological children.  This latest bid of his to cut off the communication of you and your child from the two youngest children doesn't convince me that he was "really" interested in keeping the children close.  Again, this could be from third party influence. 

The good news for you is that as your children get older, they'll be able to decide when and how often they talk to you.  So, hang in there because your ex will have less control over this as time goes on.  Keep your contact with your kids pleasant and always encourage them to talk to you and tell you what is going on.  When they get old enough you can buy them a cell phone if for no other reason than for their personal safety.  And then you can text and talk as often as you like.  Of course, you'll have to work with the ex to allow them to have a cell phone when they get old enough to have one but if it is no cost to him and he also has the benefit of being able to keep up with them via cell I can't see why he woud object. 

[TMBS]

I'm still trying to find a lawyer! Frustrating to try and find a lawyer who knows the judge and his rules and yet not be someone in the town (due to his family having quite the influence in the town). I asked him why only two nights a week, he stated "Because that's how I want it." Second time I asked if I could have a few more nights, maybe four or three out of the week because I feel it's not good for the kids and I to have such little contact. He stated that he "would think about it." He had the kids call me back because they were eating when I called them. So, when he called back and I had talked with the children I asked him again if it would be alright to call every other night or have 3 or 4 nights out of the week he stated that he would have to think about it. When I asked him what there was to think about he stated that my youngest gets upset sometimes when I call, that he just gets whiney. I stated that he doesn't seem whiney on the phone with me so, what is it that he is getting whiney about? He states "Just everything." So, now I wonder if this is going to be used as the excuse that I can't talk to my children. Odd how my youngest usually seems in a good mood and doesn't seem whiney when I speak with him. Of course there are times where he is crying saying he misses me, but from what I have gathered out of the conversations that we have had while he was here he doesn't feel the new gf is very nice.
So, will this be an excuse that will hold up in court? I feel so frustrated and fed up!

[TC]

That excuse (the whiney kid) will not hold up. 

However, as you have been told before, the longer you take to get this in front of a judge, the better chance your ex has of establishing a new status quo and getting the court to uphold it.

You have a 50-50 chance at best right now of getting extended telephonic visitation....and only if you get this in front of the court asap....imo of course.

TC

[TMBS]

I would file the papers myself but, this judge isn't all that happy about pro-se stuff. (He refused a Guardian Ad Litem and a HomeStudy and he didn't seem impressed by me filing for divorce pro-se) I am going to continue for my lawyer search on Monday. I'm not waiting, I'm just trying to be careful but, I bet it bites me in the butt once again.

[TC]

Please do not take offense at what I am about to say, but I doubt it was the fact you were filing Pro Se so much as the grounds you were trying to file under.

Judges want things filed based on law, not supposition, accusition, etc....

TC

[livealittle]

If I woke up in your shoes tomorrow, here's what I'd do.

I'd document as best I could how long I had been calling my children every night - 3 years as you stated earlier. In fact, I would run copies of my phone bills, esp the cell phone bills with all the numbers listed and then take notes on a calendar as to how long I talked on each date. Then, I would continue to call every night as I had been for the past 3 years. I'd take notes every time I call as to

date
time
who answers the phone
who I talk to and for how long
what we talk about
if dad says anything to me about not calling again

I would probably just make up some forms on excel or word or something and print them out and keep them in a 3 ring binder and fill them in as I call. I would be sure I smiled while I talked and was pleasant and nice and upbeat and made notes it the children complained about things.

I would note iif dad refuses to put the children on the phone. I would keep these records forever. When I go to see my lawyer, I would have copies of these papers to give my attorney.

but that's just me.

I bet if you did this, your attorney would thank you and a judge may consider what you have to say more carefully. You have outside documentation - the cell phone bills - proving you called every day for 3 years and now, when dad wanted to change the status quo, you started taking notes because you believed drastically reducing your contact with the children was not in their best interest.

[TMBS]

My pro-se papers were the actual divorce papers. We had agreed just to put that we both wanted the divorce, uncontested. When I had gotten a lawyer, as he had obtained one, I was told that the judge didn't really care for pro-se stuff when it comes to divorce or child custody. I had filed the correct papers, just the custody was wrong and so was the child support. (I had put that my ex would pay me $200 or $300 a month for the children while I had them-per the agreement that the ex and I had but the judge said NO WAY and wanted my ex to pay something around $700 a month...I think that is excessive and so did my ex, which is what really started the ball rolling).
I am going to try and call again tonight. I think that he and I should come to an agreement. I believe that his "having to think it over" is actually him needing to speak with his new gf about it due to last nights conversation where I asked him and he repeated himself and she said something in the background.
I have been keeping records but had never thought to get phone records. I believe I will be contacting my cell and home phone company and having them send me records.I had contacted a lawyer I had knowledge of having a custody case in the court that I was going to, she told me things to do which included things that had to do with record keeping (recorded phone calls, paperwork between the ex and I, writing down information, kept emails and chats...etc.) and I started on the whole record keeping stuff. Unfortunately, she was unable to take my case due to the amount that it would cost just to have her travel back and forth from her town to the courts. I continued with my record keeping but none of it was used in court though I had handed over all the tapes and a written out transcript of the tapes. My lawyer wasn't interested in what I had for records. I had thought that two things would be of use. One was a photograph. He looked at it and asked me where I had gotten it. I told him it is a printout of an email that was sent to me via the ex. He said "ok." That was the end of it. He wasn't interested in the information that my ex's then girlfriend stated several things to me. He wasn't even interested in calling her in to court.
But, I will continue with the record keeping and all that I have been doing. I had stopped for a while as I figured "What's the use?" But, you can bet that I am going to continue with it...thanks for telling me to get the phone records. I am calling my companies first thing Monday morning!

[TC]

The Judge got pissed because you didn't follow the standard formula for Child Support that is pretty much adopted by all states now days.  His dislike for Pro Se is more than likely that most who file Pro Se don't really know what they are doing, but rather do what they think is best.  Fair or not, Courts don't operate that way, which is also the crux of my concern over your desire for more than the standard telephonic visitation.  Two scheduled calls a week IS the standard.  You are going to have to demonstrate from a legal perspective why the Court should deviate from this standard. 

IF you can prove the status quo of much more than that has been established, you might have a chance if you get it before the court ASAP...but I am not optimistic you will be successful.  Now, having said that, you should not let my lack of optimism sway you from your course.  I am just being honest and giving my opinion...that is all.

TC

[TMBS]

I appreciate your honesty TC. I think it is refreshing to have someone who looks at my case from different eyes than the ones whom are involved. Yes, I agree, I think that the judge has had his fair share of those who didn't follow the exact laws and ways in filing. I am a pessimistic person but, I'm still forging ahead. It's nice to have someone level headed look at this, and that is what you are providing me. Thank you.